[Glass] GemTools on remote server
Dale Henrichs via Glass
glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
Fri Mar 27 10:20:04 PDT 2015
Dario,
Use `sudo netstat -p` to find out process is using that port ...
Dale
On 03/27/2015 09:52 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>
> Dale,
>
>> Dario,
>>
>> Not sure right now ... Pharo1.1 must have a different set of
>> prerequisites ... it will take a bit of time for me to figure that
>> out, I suppose you could try running GemTools over the lan using the
>> ssh port forwarding until I figure out the missing prerequisites ...
>
> No after reboot the Ubuntu system server, the GemTools on macBook
> don't work,
>
> because when i open the ssh session with :
>
> meetingto:~ dtr$ ssh scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858
> -L 57860:localhost:5786
>
> the 57858 i already in use.
>
> See the point:
>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Another questions about macBook GemTools problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dario
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On 03/27/2015 09:24 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>> Dale,
>>>
>>>> Dario,
>>>>
>>>> Good questions.
>>>>
>>>> As part of my work for the soon to be released gsDevKitHome 1.0.0,
>>>> I have taken a pretty close look at the prerequisites[2] and I've
>>>> got a detailed list of the prerequisites for Ubuntu14.04[2]. I
>>>> think I've added a couple of prereqs since you've done an install
>>>> ... mainly in the areas of support for ptrace (C stack straces) and
>>>> freetype fonts for pharo. Check you list against the required
>>>> prereqs[5].
>>>
>>> I don't verify the prerequisite for now.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It looks like you have the X11 Client already installed on the
>>>> server, so you will need to install GemTools on the server. You
>>>> should just be able to scp the GemTools zip file over to the server
>>>> and go ...
>>>
>>> I open ssh session with:
>>>
>>> ssh -X scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858 -L
>>> 57860:localhost:57860
>>>
>>> And submit:
>>>
>>> export GS_HOME=/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome
>>> export PATH=$GS_HOME/bin:$PATH
>>>
>>> $GS_HOME/bin/todeClient
>>>
>>> It work fine and i can submit tODE command on:gestionale environment
>>>
>>> After i download and unzip:
>>> http://seaside.gemtalksystems.com/squeak/GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-310x.zip
>>>
>>> When i submit:
>>>
>>> scandella at scandella:/opt/GemTools/GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-3101x.app$
>>> ./GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-3101x.sh
>>>
>>> the system answer:
>>> could not find module vm-display-X11 Annullato (core dump creato)
>>>
>>> Any idea about it?
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Another questions about macBook GemTools problem.
>>>
>>> after reboot the server Ubuntu system now when i open a ssh on my
>>> macBook with:
>>>
>>> meetingto:~ dtr$ ssh scandella -l scandella -L
>>> 57858:localhost:57858 -L 57860:localhost:5786
>>>
>>> the system answer:
>>>
>>>
>>> bind: Address already in use
>>> channel_setup_fwd_listener: cannot listen to port: 57858
>>> bind: Address already in use
>>> channel_setup_fwd_listener: cannot listen to port: 57860
>>> Could not request local forwarding.
>>>
>>> Welcome to Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.13.0-24-generic x86_64)
>>>
>>> A this point when i open the GemTools on my macBook and open the
>>> session the system answer:
>>>
>>> Error: Unable to create a GemStone session.
>>> NetLDI service '57858' not found on node 'localhost' port 57858 :
>>> For further information about login failures, check the gem log file
>>>
>>> I don't understund because 57858 i already in use after reboot the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Before use the ssh -X .................. all worked well, at the
>>> login the 57858 is free and GemTools session work fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any considerations?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dario
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the best performance using GemTools, I think that X11
>>>> forwarding[3] (instructions included) is probably the best option.
>>>> In my limited experience using X11 forwarding (with compression)
>>>> with tODE, the update delays are not nearly as annoying as the
>>>> pretty long round trip induced delays seen when using GemTools over
>>>> the WAN.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, I think that SSH port forwarding[4] is the best
>>>> option for tODE. tODE does a pretty good job of limiting the number
>>>> of round trips so having snappier window updates is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Does that clarify things for you?
>>>>
>>>> Dale
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/osPrereqs.md
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/x11ForwardingForRemoteDisplays.md
>>>> [4]
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/portForwardingForRemoteLogins.md
>>>> [5]
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md#install-basic-prerequisites-required
>>>>
>>>> On 03/26/2015 05:11 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>> Dale, Mariano,
>>>>>
>>>>> for now my server tODE environment is installed into my office and
>>>>> i don't have performance problem with GemTools.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the next week the server will installed on remote office of my
>>>>> client and i'm interested to work on it from my home office on WAN.
>>>>>
>>>>> But i don't have clear that i need to install on the server.
>>>>>
>>>>> The server is based on Ubuntu 14.04 server and for now i installed:
>>>>>
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install git
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install unzip
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install curl
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libpam0g:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libssl1.0.0:386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libssl1.0.0:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install -qq gcc-multilib libstdc++6:i386
>>>>> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-lin-gnu/libstdc++.so.6
>>>>> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so
>>>>>
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libx11-6:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libgl1-mesa-dev:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libxcb-dri2-0:i386
>>>>>
>>>>> What other i need to load ?
>>>>>
>>>>> What i need to load for GemTools on the server( and relative
>>>>> prerequisite ) ?
>>>>>
>>>>> After installed all, how i can test the GemTools load on the
>>>>> server with X11 forwarding ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Into another e-mail Dale write:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Things are a bit snappier if I use port forwarding, but the
>>>>>> advantage of XLL forwarding is that you don't have to install
>>>>>> GemTools on the remote system...
>>>>>
>>>>> But relative performance are good?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the best solutions, i'm confusing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help, considerations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dario
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mariano,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have a point that ssh tunneling for X may be a better option ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dario, When we get the port forwarding option working, you can
>>>>>> give X11 forwarding a go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd need to install the X client on your server and I have
>>>>>> another little writeup (that's part of the soon to be release
>>>>>> gsDevKitHome 1.0.0) that details the X packages that need to be
>>>>>> installed for X11 client [1], since you don't need the full blown
>>>>>> X server for X11 forwarding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md#x11-client-optional
>>>>>> On 3/25/15 7:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>>>>>>> Dario,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not read the full email.... but If you allow me a quick
>>>>>>> recommendation (maybe offtopic here), I would not use remote
>>>>>>> GemTools. It is really too slow and becomes unusable. It is far
>>>>>>> easier and faster to use SSH with X forward and run GemTools
>>>>>>> locally in your server. So in GemTools you simply put localhost
>>>>>>> etc... and then do ssh -X etc..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you can even improve performance of SSH with X by doing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> alias ssh-x='ssh -c arcfour,blowfish-cbc -XC'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> then ssh-x myserver...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Dale Henrichs via Glass
>>>>>>> <glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dario,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll have to wait for Martin to chime in with what he thinks
>>>>>>> may be going on now ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but, I'm inclined to take a different tack to address your
>>>>>>> GemTools remote login problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have ssh installed and you can log into the remote
>>>>>>> machine using ssh, so you should be able to setup ssh port
>>>>>>> forwarding for GemTools.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've done a writeup on this as part of the soon to be
>>>>>>> released gsDevKitHome 1.0.0[1].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a nutshell you do the following (after setting up the
>>>>>>> static ip address):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ssh scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858 -L
>>>>>>> 57860:localhost:57860
>>>>>>> # cd to your gestionale directory
>>>>>>> . defStone.env
>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -a scandella -g -p 57860:57860 -P
>>>>>>> 57858 gestionale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The use localhost in your session description, :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OGCustomSessionDescription new
>>>>>>> name: 'Scandella3106 gestionale';
>>>>>>> stoneHost: 'localhost';
>>>>>>> stoneName: 'gestionale';
>>>>>>> gemHost: 'localhost';
>>>>>>> netLDI: '57858';
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/portForwardingForRemoteLogins.md
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/15 3:07 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dale,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dario,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Replace the line:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $GS_HOME/bin/tode startnetldi $stoneName -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with a direct call to the startnetldi as described in my
>>>>>>>>> last email:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a $USER -A192.168.1.10 -l \
>>>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/${stoneName}_ldi.log \
>>>>>>>>> ${stoneName}_ldi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BUUUUUUT,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK i do this test, i report what i do:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> before we get to the point where we are trying to debug
>>>>>>>>> the startNetldi script, let's verify that you can start a
>>>>>>>>> netldi that works with your remote GemTools. So:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. login in as the user that is running your stone processes
>>>>>>>> I login as scandella
>>>>>>>>> 2. cd $GS_HOME/gemstone/stones/<stone-name>
>>>>>>>> i go to my gestionale stone directory
>>>>>>>>> 3. execute the following bash script:
>>>>>>>>> . defStone.env
>>>>>>>> i do the command: . defStone.env( with a blank after the. )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. then manually start the netldi:
>>>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a $USER -A192.168.1.10 -l \
>>>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/${GEMSTONE_NAME}_ldi.log \
>>>>>>>>> ${GEMSTONE_NAME}_ldi
>>>>>>>> i do the command :
>>>>>>>> $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a scandella -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>> -l $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/gestionale_ldi.log \gestionale_ldi
>>>>>>>> It Report:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GemStone version '3.1.0.6'
>>>>>>>> startnetldi[Info]: Starting GemStone network server
>>>>>>>> 'gestionale_ldi'.
>>>>>>>> startnetldi[Info]: GEMSTONE is:
>>>>>>>> '/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome/gemstone/stones/gestionale/product'.
>>>>>>>> startnetldi[Info]: GEMSTONE_NRS_ALL is:
>>>>>>>> '#dir:$GEMSTONE_LOGDIR#log:%N%P.log'.
>>>>>>>> startnetldi[Info]: Log file is
>>>>>>>> '/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome/gemstone/stones/gestionale/logs/gestionale_ldi.log'.
>>>>>>>> startnetldi[Info]: GemStone server 'gestionale_ldi' has
>>>>>>>> been started, process 4336 .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now the scandella at scandella:~$ netstat -ltpn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> command report :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Non tutti i processi potrebbero essere
>>>>>>>> identificati, le informazioni sui processi non propri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> non saranno mostrate, per visualizzarle tutte
>>>>>>>> bisogna avere privilegi di root.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Connessioni Internet attive (solo server)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Proto CodaRic CodaInv Indirizzo locale Indirizzo
>>>>>>>> remoto Stato PID/Program name
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:21 <http://0.0.0.0:21/>
>>>>>>>> 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:22 <http://0.0.0.0:22/>
>>>>>>>> 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:25 <http://0.0.0.0:25/>
>>>>>>>> 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:80 <http://0.0.0.0/>
>>>>>>>> 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 :::22 :::* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 :::25 :::* LISTEN -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 127.0.0.1:57858
>>>>>>>> <http://127.0.0.1:57858/> :::* LISTEN
>>>>>>>> 4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 ::1:57858 :::*
>>>>>>>> LISTEN 4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 192.168.1.10:57858
>>>>>>>> <http://192.168.1.10:57858/> :::* LISTEN
>>>>>>>> 4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 127.0.0.1:54660
>>>>>>>> <http://127.0.0.1:54660/> :::* LISTEN
>>>>>>>> 4248/shrpcmonitor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 ::1:54660 :::*
>>>>>>>> LISTEN 4248/shrpcmonitor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tcp6 0 0 :::57323 :::* LISTEN
>>>>>>>> 4246/stoned
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5. test your remote GemTools
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I update the GemTools session:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OGCustomSessionDescription new
>>>>>>>> name: 'Scandella3106 gestionale';
>>>>>>>> stoneHost: 'scandella';
>>>>>>>> stoneName: 'gestionale';
>>>>>>>> gemHost: 'scandella';
>>>>>>>> netLDI: '57858';
>>>>>>>> .............
>>>>>>>> ...........
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It don't work, when i do theGemTools loginthe system go
>>>>>>>> into loop
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> until i stoped the:gestionale_ldi 4336 process
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dario
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When we get GemTools working with a manually started
>>>>>>>>> netldi, then you can try changing the startNetldi script.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2015 04:02 PM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dale, Martin,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2015 01:02 PM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you intend with: did this fix it for you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For now i don't resolve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, thanks. From your previous message I wasn't sure
>>>>>>>>>>> whether you were
>>>>>>>>>>> still seeing the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Considerations?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The netldi is only listening on the IPv6 localhost
>>>>>>>>>>> address. If you want
>>>>>>>>>>> to use GemTools from another machine, it must also
>>>>>>>>>>> listen on the
>>>>>>>>>>> 192.168.1.10 address. I'm not sure why it isn't already
>>>>>>>>>>> listening on
>>>>>>>>>>> that address, but you should be able to fix it by adding
>>>>>>>>>>> -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>>> to your startnetldi command line (see the man page for
>>>>>>>>>>> startnetldi).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once you've started netldi with that option, netstat
>>>>>>>>>>> -ltpn should show
>>>>>>>>>>> netldi listening on that address.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First:my environment is based on tODE and i think to
>>>>>>>>>> change the file startNetldi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> adding some parameter to the last line.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #! /bin/bash
>>>>>>>>>> #=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>> # Copyright (c) 2014 GemTalk Systems, LLC
>>>>>>>>>> <dhenrich at gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:dhenrich at gemtalksystems.com>>.
>>>>>>>>>> #=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> usage() {
>>>>>>>>>> cat <<HELP
>>>>>>>>>> USAGE: $(basename $0) [-h] <stone-name>
>>>>>>>>>> Start the netldi process for the given stone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OPTIONS
>>>>>>>>>> -h display help
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EXAMPLES
>>>>>>>>>> $(basename $0) -h
>>>>>>>>>> $(basename $0) kit
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HELP
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> set -e # exit on error
>>>>>>>>>> if [ "${GS_HOME}x" = "x" ] ; then
>>>>>>>>>> echo "the GS_HOME environment variable needs to be
>>>>>>>>>> defined"; exit 1
>>>>>>>>>> fi
>>>>>>>>>> source ${GS_HOME}/bin/shFunctions
>>>>>>>>>> getOpts_help $@
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then
>>>>>>>>>> usage; exit 1
>>>>>>>>>> fi
>>>>>>>>>> stoneName=$1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> echo "starting netldi $stoneName"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> # set up stone environment
>>>>>>>>>> stonePath=$GS_HOME/gemstone/stones/$stoneName
>>>>>>>>>> pushd $stonePath >& /dev/null
>>>>>>>>>> source $stonePath/stone.env
>>>>>>>>>> popd >& /dev/null
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> $GS_HOME/bin/tode startnetldi $stoneName -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But with this information when i do the command :
>>>>>>>>>> startNetlidi gestionale i don't solve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The netstat -ltpn don't report netldi listening on that
>>>>>>>>>> address.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Second:in addition the service are started with
>>>>>>>>>> Daemontools Gemstone service and i don't know where i
>>>>>>>>>> need add the -A parameter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone know informations about it ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dario
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Glass mailing list
>>>>>>> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mariano
>>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com <http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Glass mailing list
>>>>>> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>> <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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