[Glass] GemTools on remote server

Dale Henrichs via Glass glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
Fri Mar 27 10:20:04 PDT 2015


Dario,

Use `sudo netstat -p` to find out process is using that port ...

Dale

On 03/27/2015 09:52 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>
> Dale,
>
>> Dario,
>>
>> Not sure right now ... Pharo1.1 must have a different set of 
>> prerequisites ... it will take a bit of time for me to figure that 
>> out, I suppose you could try running GemTools over the lan using the 
>> ssh port forwarding until I figure out the missing prerequisites ...
>
> No after reboot the Ubuntu system server,  the GemTools  on macBook 
> don't work,
>
>  because when i open the ssh session with :
>
> meetingto:~ dtr$ ssh  scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858 
> -L 57860:localhost:5786
>
> the 57858 i already in use.
>
> See the point:
>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Another questions about macBook GemTools problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dario
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On 03/27/2015 09:24 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>> Dale,
>>>
>>>> Dario,
>>>>
>>>> Good questions.
>>>>
>>>> As part of my work for the soon to be released gsDevKitHome 1.0.0, 
>>>> I have taken a pretty close look at the prerequisites[2] and I've 
>>>> got a detailed list of the prerequisites for Ubuntu14.04[2]. I 
>>>> think I've added a couple of prereqs since you've done an install 
>>>> ... mainly in the areas of support for ptrace (C stack straces) and 
>>>> freetype fonts for pharo.  Check you list against the required 
>>>> prereqs[5].
>>>
>>> I don't verify the prerequisite for now.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It looks like you have the X11 Client already installed on the 
>>>> server, so you will need to install GemTools on the server. You 
>>>> should just be able to scp the GemTools zip file over to the server 
>>>> and go ...
>>>
>>> I open ssh session with:
>>>
>>> ssh -X scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858 -L 
>>> 57860:localhost:57860
>>>
>>> And submit:
>>>
>>> export GS_HOME=/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome
>>> export PATH=$GS_HOME/bin:$PATH
>>>
>>> $GS_HOME/bin/todeClient
>>>
>>> It work fine and i can submit tODE command on:gestionale    environment
>>>
>>> After i download and unzip: 
>>> http://seaside.gemtalksystems.com/squeak/GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-310x.zip
>>>
>>> When i  submit:
>>>
>>> scandella at scandella:/opt/GemTools/GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-3101x.app$ 
>>> ./GemTools-1.0-beta.8.7-3101x.sh
>>>
>>> the system answer:
>>> could not find module vm-display-X11 Annullato (core dump creato)
>>>
>>> Any idea about it?
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Another questions about macBook GemTools problem.
>>>
>>> after reboot the server Ubuntu system now when i open a ssh on my 
>>> macBook with:
>>>
>>> meetingto:~ dtr$ ssh  scandella -l scandella -L 
>>> 57858:localhost:57858 -L 57860:localhost:5786
>>>
>>> the system answer:
>>>
>>>
>>>     bind: Address already in use
>>>     channel_setup_fwd_listener: cannot listen to port: 57858
>>>     bind: Address already in use
>>>     channel_setup_fwd_listener: cannot listen to port: 57860
>>>     Could not request local forwarding.
>>>
>>>     Welcome to Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.13.0-24-generic x86_64)
>>>
>>> A this point when i open the GemTools on my macBook and open the 
>>> session the system answer:
>>>
>>> Error: Unable to create a GemStone session.
>>> NetLDI service '57858' not found on node 'localhost' port 57858 :
>>>  For further information about login failures, check the gem log file
>>>
>>> I don't understund because 57858 i already in use after reboot the 
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Before use the ssh -X ..................  all worked well,  at the 
>>> login the 57858 is free  and GemTools session work fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any considerations?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dario
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the best performance using GemTools, I think that X11 
>>>> forwarding[3] (instructions included) is probably the best option. 
>>>> In my limited experience using X11 forwarding (with compression) 
>>>> with tODE, the update delays are not nearly as annoying as the 
>>>> pretty long round trip induced delays seen when using GemTools over 
>>>> the WAN.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, I think that SSH port forwarding[4] is the best 
>>>> option for tODE. tODE does a pretty good job of limiting the number 
>>>> of round trips so having snappier window updates is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Does that clarify things for you?
>>>>
>>>> Dale
>>>>
>>>> [1] 
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/osPrereqs.md
>>>> [2] 
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md
>>>> [3] 
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/x11ForwardingForRemoteDisplays.md
>>>> [4] 
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/portForwardingForRemoteLogins.md
>>>> [5] 
>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md#install-basic-prerequisites-required
>>>>
>>>> On 03/26/2015 05:11 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>> Dale, Mariano,
>>>>>
>>>>> for now my server tODE environment is installed into my office and 
>>>>> i don't have performance problem with GemTools.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the next week the server will installed on remote office of my 
>>>>> client and i'm interested to work on it from my home office on WAN.
>>>>>
>>>>> But i don't have clear that i need to install on the server.
>>>>>
>>>>> The server is based on Ubuntu 14.04 server  and for now i installed:
>>>>>
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install git
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install unzip
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install curl
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libpam0g:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libssl1.0.0:386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libssl1.0.0:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install -qq gcc-multilib libstdc++6:i386
>>>>> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-lin-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 
>>>>> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so
>>>>>
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libx11-6:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libgl1-mesa-dev:i386
>>>>> sudo apt-get -y install libxcb-dri2-0:i386
>>>>>
>>>>> What other i need to load ?
>>>>>
>>>>> What i need to load for GemTools on the server( and relative 
>>>>> prerequisite ) ?
>>>>>
>>>>> After installed all, how i can test the GemTools load on the 
>>>>> server with X11 forwarding ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Into another e-mail Dale write:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Things are a bit snappier if I use port forwarding, but the 
>>>>>> advantage of XLL forwarding is that you don't have to install 
>>>>>> GemTools on the remote system...
>>>>>
>>>>> But relative performance are good?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the best solutions, i'm confusing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help, considerations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dario
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mariano,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have a point that ssh tunneling for X may be a better option ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dario, When we get the port forwarding option working, you can 
>>>>>> give X11 forwarding a go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd need to install the X client on your server and I have 
>>>>>> another little writeup (that's part of the soon to be release 
>>>>>> gsDevKitHome 1.0.0) that details the X packages that need to be 
>>>>>> installed for X11 client [1], since you don't need the full blown 
>>>>>> X server for X11 forwarding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] 
>>>>>> https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/osPrereqs/ubuntu14.04.md#x11-client-optional
>>>>>> On 3/25/15 7:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>>>>>>> Dario,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not read the full email.... but If you allow me a quick 
>>>>>>> recommendation (maybe offtopic here), I would not use remote 
>>>>>>> GemTools. It is really too slow and becomes unusable. It is far 
>>>>>>> easier and faster to use SSH with X forward and run GemTools 
>>>>>>> locally in your server. So in GemTools you simply put localhost 
>>>>>>> etc... and then do ssh -X etc..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you can even improve performance of SSH with X by doing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> alias ssh-x='ssh -c arcfour,blowfish-cbc -XC'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> then ssh-x myserver...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Dale Henrichs via Glass 
>>>>>>> <glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Dario,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I'll have to wait for Martin to chime in with what he thinks
>>>>>>>     may be going on now ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     but, I'm inclined to take a different tack to address your
>>>>>>>     GemTools remote login problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     You have ssh installed and you can log into the remote
>>>>>>>     machine using ssh, so you should be able to setup ssh port
>>>>>>>     forwarding for GemTools.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I've done a writeup on this as part of the soon to be
>>>>>>>     released gsDevKitHome 1.0.0[1].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     In a nutshell you do the following (after setting up the
>>>>>>>     static ip address):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     ssh scandella -l scandella -L 57858:localhost:57858  -L
>>>>>>>     57860:localhost:57860
>>>>>>>     # cd to your gestionale directory
>>>>>>>     . defStone.env
>>>>>>>     $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -a scandella -g -p 57860:57860 -P
>>>>>>>     57858 gestionale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     The use localhost in your session description, :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       OGCustomSessionDescription new
>>>>>>>     name: 'Scandella3106 gestionale';
>>>>>>>     stoneHost: 'localhost';
>>>>>>>     stoneName: 'gestionale';
>>>>>>>     gemHost: 'localhost';
>>>>>>>     netLDI: '57858';
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Dale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     [1]
>>>>>>>     https://github.com/GsDevKit/gsDevKitHome/blob/dev/docs/portForwardingForRemoteLogins.md
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     On 3/25/15 3:07 AM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>>     Dale,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Dario,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Replace the line:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     $GS_HOME/bin/tode startnetldi $stoneName -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     with a direct call to the startnetldi as described in my
>>>>>>>>>     last email:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a $USER -A192.168.1.10 -l \
>>>>>>>>>     $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/${stoneName}_ldi.log \
>>>>>>>>>     ${stoneName}_ldi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     BUUUUUUT,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     OK i do this test, i report what i do:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     before we get to the point where we are trying to debug
>>>>>>>>>     the startNetldi script, let's verify that you can start a
>>>>>>>>>     netldi that works with your remote GemTools. So:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       1. login in as the user that is running your stone processes
>>>>>>>>     I login as scandella
>>>>>>>>>       2. cd $GS_HOME/gemstone/stones/<stone-name>
>>>>>>>>     i go to my gestionale stone directory
>>>>>>>>>       3. execute the following bash script:
>>>>>>>>>           . defStone.env
>>>>>>>>     i do the command:    . defStone.env( with a blank after the. )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       4. then manually start the netldi:
>>>>>>>>>     $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a $USER -A192.168.1.10 -l \
>>>>>>>>>     $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/${GEMSTONE_NAME}_ldi.log \
>>>>>>>>>     ${GEMSTONE_NAME}_ldi
>>>>>>>>     i do the command :
>>>>>>>>      $GEMSTONE/bin/startnetldi -g -a scandella -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>     -l $GEMSTONE_LOGDIR/gestionale_ldi.log \gestionale_ldi
>>>>>>>>     It Report:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         GemStone version '3.1.0.6'
>>>>>>>>         startnetldi[Info]: Starting GemStone network server
>>>>>>>>         'gestionale_ldi'.
>>>>>>>>         startnetldi[Info]: GEMSTONE is:
>>>>>>>>         '/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome/gemstone/stones/gestionale/product'.
>>>>>>>>         startnetldi[Info]: GEMSTONE_NRS_ALL is:
>>>>>>>>         '#dir:$GEMSTONE_LOGDIR#log:%N%P.log'.
>>>>>>>>         startnetldi[Info]: Log file is
>>>>>>>>         '/opt/oodb/gsDevKitHome/gemstone/stones/gestionale/logs/gestionale_ldi.log'.
>>>>>>>>         startnetldi[Info]: GemStone server 'gestionale_ldi' has
>>>>>>>>         been started, process 4336 .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Now the scandella at scandella:~$ netstat -ltpn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     command report :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             (Non tutti i processi potrebbero essere
>>>>>>>>             identificati, le informazioni sui processi non propri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>              non saranno mostrate, per visualizzarle tutte
>>>>>>>>             bisogna avere privilegi di root.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             Connessioni Internet attive (solo server)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             Proto CodaRic CodaInv Indirizzo locale  Indirizzo
>>>>>>>>             remoto Stato PID/Program name
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp  0      0 0.0.0.0:21 <http://0.0.0.0:21/>
>>>>>>>>              0.0.0.0:* LISTEN      -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp  0      0 0.0.0.0:22 <http://0.0.0.0:22/>
>>>>>>>>              0.0.0.0:* LISTEN      -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp  0      0 0.0.0.0:25 <http://0.0.0.0:25/>
>>>>>>>>              0.0.0.0:* LISTEN      -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp  0      0 0.0.0.0:80 <http://0.0.0.0/>
>>>>>>>>              0.0.0.0:* LISTEN      -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 :::22           :::*      LISTEN    -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 :::25           :::*      LISTEN    -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 127.0.0.1:57858
>>>>>>>>             <http://127.0.0.1:57858/>         :::*    LISTEN
>>>>>>>>              4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 ::1:57858           :::*    
>>>>>>>>              LISTEN  4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 192.168.1.10:57858
>>>>>>>>             <http://192.168.1.10:57858/>      :::*  LISTEN
>>>>>>>>              4336/netldid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 127.0.0.1:54660
>>>>>>>>             <http://127.0.0.1:54660/>         :::*    LISTEN
>>>>>>>>              4248/shrpcmonitor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 ::1:54660           :::*    
>>>>>>>>              LISTEN  4248/shrpcmonitor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             tcp6   0      0 :::57323          :::*      LISTEN
>>>>>>>>                4246/stoned
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       5. test your remote GemTools
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I update the GemTools session:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       OGCustomSessionDescription new
>>>>>>>>     name: 'Scandella3106 gestionale';
>>>>>>>>     stoneHost: 'scandella';
>>>>>>>>     stoneName: 'gestionale';
>>>>>>>>     gemHost: 'scandella';
>>>>>>>>     netLDI: '57858';
>>>>>>>>     .............
>>>>>>>>     ...........
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     It don't work, when i do theGemTools loginthe system go
>>>>>>>>     into loop
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      until i stoped the:gestionale_ldi 4336 process
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Dario
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     When we get GemTools working with a manually started
>>>>>>>>>     netldi, then you can try changing the startNetldi script.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Dale
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     On 03/24/2015 04:02 PM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>     Dale, Martin,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     On 03/24/2015 01:02 PM, Dario Trussardi via Glass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     What do you intend with:  did this fix it for you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     For now i don't resolve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     OK, thanks. From your previous message I wasn't sure
>>>>>>>>>>>     whether you were
>>>>>>>>>>>     still seeing the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Considerations?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     The netldi is only listening on the IPv6 localhost
>>>>>>>>>>>     address. If you want
>>>>>>>>>>>     to use GemTools from another machine, it must also
>>>>>>>>>>>     listen on the
>>>>>>>>>>>     192.168.1.10 address. I'm not sure why it isn't already
>>>>>>>>>>>     listening on
>>>>>>>>>>>     that address, but you should be able to fix it by adding
>>>>>>>>>>>     -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>>>     to your startnetldi command line (see the man page for
>>>>>>>>>>>     startnetldi).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Once you've started netldi with that option, netstat
>>>>>>>>>>>     -ltpn should show
>>>>>>>>>>>     netldi listening on that address.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     First:my environment is based on tODE and i think to
>>>>>>>>>>     change the file startNetldi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     adding some parameter to the last line.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         #! /bin/bash
>>>>>>>>>>         #=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>         # Copyright (c) 2014 GemTalk Systems, LLC
>>>>>>>>>>         <dhenrich at gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:dhenrich at gemtalksystems.com>>.
>>>>>>>>>>         #=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         usage() {
>>>>>>>>>>           cat <<HELP
>>>>>>>>>>         USAGE: $(basename $0) [-h] <stone-name>
>>>>>>>>>>          Start the netldi process for the given stone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         OPTIONS
>>>>>>>>>>           -h display help
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         EXAMPLES
>>>>>>>>>>         $(basename $0) -h
>>>>>>>>>>         $(basename $0) kit
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         HELP
>>>>>>>>>>         }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         set -e # exit on error
>>>>>>>>>>         if [ "${GS_HOME}x" = "x" ] ; then
>>>>>>>>>>           echo "the GS_HOME environment variable needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>         defined"; exit 1
>>>>>>>>>>         fi
>>>>>>>>>>         source ${GS_HOME}/bin/shFunctions
>>>>>>>>>>         getOpts_help $@
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then
>>>>>>>>>>           usage; exit 1
>>>>>>>>>>         fi
>>>>>>>>>>         stoneName=$1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         echo "starting netldi $stoneName"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         # set up stone environment
>>>>>>>>>>         stonePath=$GS_HOME/gemstone/stones/$stoneName
>>>>>>>>>>         pushd $stonePath >& /dev/null
>>>>>>>>>>         source $stonePath/stone.env
>>>>>>>>>>         popd >& /dev/null
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         $GS_HOME/bin/tode startnetldi $stoneName -A192.168.1.10
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     But with this information when i do the command :
>>>>>>>>>>     startNetlidi gestionale  i don't solve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     The netstat -ltpn don't report  netldi listening on that
>>>>>>>>>>     address.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Second:in addition  the service are  started with
>>>>>>>>>>     Daemontools Gemstone service and  i don't know where i
>>>>>>>>>>     need add the -A parameter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Anyone know informations about it ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Dario
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     -Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>     Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>     Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com  <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>>>>     http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>>>     Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>>>     http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>     Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>>     Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com  <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>>     http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>     Glass mailing list
>>>>>>>     Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>>>>>>>     <mailto:Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com>
>>>>>>>     http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Mariano
>>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com <http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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