[Glass] Basic questions regarding GemBuilder for Smalltalk, GemTools, and tODE

Tue Oct 1 09:29:21 PDT 2013

>> regarding tODE...I do understand it provides some tools built on top on
the web

Dale is the authority on tODE, but I don't think it has anything build on
top of the web. There was an effort by someone else to port it to Amber
Smalltalk, but I don't know the state of that.

tODE is presently an environment for programming a GemStone server.
However, it is designed to allow it to be adapted to other purposes,
including being an IDE within a single environment such as Pharo or any
other Smalltalk.

>> does tODE provides or will provide some functionality of GemTools?

In that GemTools provides an IDE for GemStone/S development, tODE provides
the same functionality. There may be features in GemTools that are not
present in tODE, but that is something Dale could clarify. One of the
things that tODE was intended for was to provide GemTools-like capability
without the poor performance the event-driver user interface model displays
over a WAN.

Dale has been using tODE itself for his GemStone development work over the
last 6-8 months ... exclusively.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:11 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Thank you all for your answers. It is now pretty clear to me the
> differences and what I need and don't need. Thanks.
> One last question regarding tODE...I do understand it provides some tools
> built on top on the web, and I have seen a few presentations from Dale. The
> thing is that I remember seeing some emails from Dale talking or relating
> tODE with GemTools. So...besides having an IDE on top on the web, does tODE
> provides or will provide some functionality of GemTools? I GUESS you may be
> able to run tODE directly on the seaside running in GemStone itself so it
> helps you browse the code etc. If we have a workspace...then I guess we are
> able to load our app code into GemStone and do what we want.. etc.. so
> maybe this is the thing? that running tODE in GemStone could give us the
> functionality we now have in GemTools?
>
> Now that I have this thread already open ;) I wonder if someone has ever
> written some "port rules" or things to be aware when deploying to GemStone.
> I guess certain Pharo kernel classes/methods may not exist or answer
> something different, etc... And I think the answer would be around Grease?
>  In other words, what I ask is the following: imagine (it is not the case
> unfortunately) I don't use any other library than seaside/magritte. What
> are the things that would make the port to gemstone complicated? Is there
> any list or conventions somewhere?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Richard Sargent <rsargent at 5x5.on.ca>wrote:
>
>> **
>> >> Something that confuses me a lot if all these pieces that seem
>> somehow related: GemBuilder for Smalltalk, GemTools, and tODE.
>>
>> That's not surprising, when all is said and done.
>> GemBuilder is the only truly licensed and supported product - supported
>> by GemTalk Systems - among those three. GemTools, tODE, and Jade are the
>> work of individual employees of GemTalk Systems but open sourced to the
>> community (at least some of them). Additionally, there is Topaz, which one
>> could consider the GemStone/S command-line interpreter, definitely not an
>> IDE.
>>
>> One of the most important things in GBS is its "traversal buffer"
>> technology which allows seamless and high performance replication of
>> objects between the client and the server. This allows one to have the same
>> class defined on the server and on the client (VW or VA) which some subset
>> of the functionality defined in the server and some in the client, with the
>> data being replicated between the two as the client and server processes
>> interact.
>>
>> Topaz, GemTools, and Jade all allow one to develop against a server. The
>> latter two provide a GUI similar to the familiar and mostly well-loved
>> Smalltalk browsers.
>>
>>
>> >> I also thought part of GemBuilder was to map certain kernel classes
>> of the client language to GemStone
>>
>> Not just certain kernel classes, but any classes you wish, including your
>> application classes. This is important if you want to have a rich
>> client/server application, not just a server app.
>>
>> >> why would I not need a GemBuilder for Pharo but do need it for VW and
>> VA?
>>
>> It isn't that you don't need a GemBuilder for Pharo, but that we do not
>> have a commercial product for Pharo. Virtually all of our paying customers
>> have either VA or VW applications. GemBuilder is an elaborate product,
>> which requires considerable effort to port to a new environment and to
>> support.
>>
>>
>> >> how is tODE related to GemTools?
>>
>> I think the answer to this question is "barely!". tODE is a fascinating
>> approach to an IDE, hosted in Pharo but with virtually all the work other
>> than presentation provided in the server. You should refer to Dale's
>> various conference talks for details on tODE. One of the most important
>> things it addresses is the difficulty in modifying or subclassing existing
>> browser classes to add capabilities. Over the years, I have had countless
>> frustrations while trying to avoid modifying vendor code but adding
>> features. tODE "deconstructs" the browser, in theory making this much
>> easier to accomplish.
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps answer some of your questions, even if it fails to tell
>> you what to do. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* glass-bounces at lists.gemtalksystems.com [mailto:
>> glass-bounces at lists.gemtalksystems.com] *On Behalf Of *Mariano Martinez
>> Peck
>> *Sent:* September-30-13 1:48 PM
>> *To:* glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
>> *Subject:* [Glass] Basic questions regarding GemBuilder for Smalltalk,
>> GemTools,and tODE
>>
>>  Hi guys,
>>
>> I am evaluating GemStone for a client and I want to give it a try. I have
>> a very high level idea of GemStone but I never use it for real. The
>> application I may need to run in GemStone is a Seaside app 3.0 + Magritte3.
>>
>> Something that confuses me a lot if all these pieces that seem somehow
>> related: GemBuilder for Smalltalk, GemTools, and tODE. And I have a few
>> questions related to these. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
>>
>> From what I understand, I do need a kind of "GemBuilder for Smalltalk" in
>> order to connect my client Smalltalk (Pharo in my case) to GemStone. But
>> there isn't any GemBuilder for Pharo (only VW and VA). I also thought part
>> of GemBuilder was to map certain kernel classes of the client language to
>> GemStone, to retrieve objects from GemStone into my smalltalk client
>> vm..etc.
>>
>> So..I guess GemTools is a subset of an equivalent "GemBuilder for Pharo"?
>> What is its relation to the GemBuilder?
>> From what I understand, GemTools offers me some tools to connect to a
>> GemStone server, load code, execute some code on the server, etc etc etc. I
>> think I can do more or less the same with Topaz as well. That means that
>> GemBuilder is optional and I could use Topaz only. If I use Topaz directly,
>> it means that I don't need any GemBuilder at all for Pharo? If true, how
>> then it happens that "mapping of certain kernel classes" that I read
>> somewhere?  in other word, why would I not need a GemBuilder for Pharo but
>> do need it for VW and VA? Just because there is no UI and all we have is
>> seaside running? And if I run Seaside in VW then I don't need GemBuilder
>> for VW?
>>
>> If I don't need GemBuilder at all, how can I know which classes/methods
>> of Pharo can I use and which ones I cannot?
>>
>> I noticed the GemTools is based on a very very old Pharo image. I guess
>> this is not a very big problem because I would use that image only to load
>> my code into GemStone and maybe for other small issues. Still, I will
>> continue developing my app in Pharo 2.0 and I will keep having my
>> ConfigurationOfXXX with the proper load for GemStone. Right?
>>
>> Anyway...now how is tODE related to GemTools? What does tODE help me
>> regarding GemStone? Can I use it already or should I still with
>> GemTools/Topaz for the moment? I searched  in Gemtalk Systems and I found
>> nothing.
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much!
>>
>> --
>> Mariano
>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Glass mailing list
> Glass at lists.gemtalksystems.com
> http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/listinfo/glass
>
>

-- 
Richard Sargent
Business Development Manager
richard.sargent at gemtalksystems.comGemTalk Systems
15220 NW Greenbrier Parkway #240
Beaverton, OR 97006
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.gemtalksystems.com/mailman/private/glass/attachments/20131001/7a663c92/attachment.html>